(Images from Roadracing World and MCN respectively.)
[See update near the bottom]
Ducati has announced 2 new 1199 models recently: The 1199 Senna for Brazil only, and the (alleged) 1199 Superleggera. The Superleggera is being sold by invite only, potential customers are being vetted through dealers.
Ducati originally made a 916 Senna (behind the 1199 in the top photo) by agreement between Claudio Castiglioni and Ayrton Senna, who were friends. Castiglioni was then the president of Cagiva who had purchased Ducati years before. Ducati was Cagiva’s top brand at the time, so the decision was for the “Senna” model to be a Ducati. This agreement was done before the death of Ayrton Senna in 1994 at Imola near the start of the F1 race.
The 916 Senna model was released in 1995, and then Cagiva sold Ducati to an American investment firm soon after. Castiglioni believed that the agreement between him and Senna was personal, so he later created an MV Agusta F4S 750 “Senna” model in 2002 and then again in 2006 with a 1000cc version (which wasn’t as nice looking).
Ducati made sort of a copy of the Senna in 2002 with the 748S, which might be the best looking of all of the 916 variants.
So now Ducati is back to making a Senna model again, this time with the 1199. Will MV Agusta be next?
The bottom picture (from MCN) is of the alleged “parts” of the 1199 “Superleggera” (“Superlight” in Italian). I say “parts”, because if you look hard enough, you’ll see nearly enough to build an entire motorcycle. There are many rumors flying around about specs, but it might be 40 pounds lighter than the 1199R (!) with about 10 more horsepower. If this is true, it should be by far the best power to weight ratio in motorcycling, and possibly the most powerful sportbike in terms of rear wheel horsepower. There are also rumors of more advanced electronics, although it looks possible that there is no electronically adjustable suspension.
In order to lose that much weight, it’s likely that all parts shown above will be made from carbon fiber, titanium, magnesium, and possibly forged (instead of cast) aluminum. It would be interesting to see if they make the engine cases out of something other than aluminum. Air cooled VWs had magnesium cases, but they were better known for burning than being light (but they were pretty light).
Some potential customers have already been contacted about this bike, but as far as I know, not very many details were released. 100 are coming to the US, and there will be 400 more for the rest of the world. The price is likely to be double or more than the current 1199R.
I’m wondering if this bike is an indication of changes in Ducati’s World Superbike program. This might be a homologation attempt for some parts that they can’t currently use, such as possibly a magnesium monocoque frame and revised bore and stroke, among other things. I haven’t read the recent WSBK rules so I don’t know if 500 “bikes” (or parts kits, as the case may be) qualifies. It could also be a way to stay competitive in a new rules structure that requires bikes to be less modified from their street bike versions.
UPDATE: The “Superleggera” is officially being called “Project 1201″ and not many more details have been confirmed. The frame will be sand cast Magnesium, the wheels will be forged Magnesium (not common on street bikes), the subframe is carbon fiber, the crank is lightened, the rear shock has a titanium spring, and so on.
I got an email from Ducati about it this morning (October 11th). It says it will be nothing less “..than the most exclusive and desirable Ducati ever made.” I think that’s a bold statement in the context of bikes like the Desmosedici, Supermono, 851 Tricolore, 998R, and the fabled 955 homologation racer, among others. I’m pretty sure the Desmosedici will remain the pinnacle no matter what they do to the 1199, but we’ll see.
This motorcycle is exceptionally beautiful, and even better, you’ll see it on our club rides once in a while! It’s been shown in the TVMR (Tucson Vintage Motorcycle Riders) annual show a few times as well.
As promised, I owe Chris a T-shirt from one of the few that I have left.
I think part of the reason is because engine warm up is not a very well defined thing.
Disclaimer: I’m not a scientist, and I haven’t done scientific experiments to quantify what I’m writing here. Everything I’m writing about comes from experience with building engines.
Let me make it easy to start off with though…
Is engine warm up important?
Yes it is.
For the longevity of your engine.
Now it’s time to define what engine warm up actually is. I haven’t read a very good definition, I think it’s best to start out with what it is not:
o Starting the engine and immediately driving away
o Holding the engine at high rpm with the throttle just after startup (high RPM to me means anything over about 2000 RPM).
o Wildly revving the engine up and down just after start up.
Since I didn’t really find a good definition of what engine warmup is, I’m going to go out on a limb and make my own definition (relevant to the bikes at we ride):
When the engine is cold (after sitting for more than an hour or so), it’s 30 to 60 seconds of idling after you hit the start button, without touching the throttle unless it’s necessary to keep the engine running. Then drive gently for another 30 to 60 seconds or so. And it’s a good idea to not accelerate too quickly in the first few minutes after a cold start.
That’s not so hard, is it?
(This won’t be a perfect strategy for every engine, and I don’t claim that this amount of time is enough to get all engines to operating temperature. But it should be enough to get some level of heat into critical parts so that they are not operating cold.)
We’re motorcyclists, so this should be exceedingly easy to follow. Hit the start button, put on your jacket, helmet, and gloves, and you’re past the first step.
I’ve found 3 common reasons why some people think engine warmup isn’t necessary, none are very good:
2. It wastes fuel
3. It’s bad for the environment.
#1 can’t be fixed. Impatience is unfortunate.
#2 is nonsense because very little fuel is used during startup. A minor amount of aggressive driving would use more fuel than a few minutes of warmup.
#3 is especially insidious though. In this era of “green is good”, sometimes the truth takes a backseat. I’d argue that having to put your car/bike into the shitheap years early because you didn’t take proper care of your engine is much harder on the environment than a few extra seconds of the engine running. If people are that concerned about the environment, they should stop driving!
So what is the technical reason for warming up your engine?
Your engine is made of metal(s), and metal expands as it heats up. It was designed to run properly when hot.
Anyone who has ridden a two stroke motorcycle and had the engine seize has experienced this first hand! The aluminum pistons got hot quicker than the cylinder bore and grew larger than the bore. The bore was too cool, and the pistons got themselves stuck.
Another reason why warm up is good is that it gives the engine a chance to distribute oil before any significant load is applied. This is a good thing.
I’ve heard from knowledgeable people that engine warmup isn’t as important anymore with modern engines. I tend to agree to some extent, but motorcycle engines are different (because they put out so much power for their size). I believe that there is some short period of time when the engine is started cold that a large load should not be put on it. I think in general this is true of any engine.
I would love to get feedback from anyone who can tell me why engine warmup isn’t important!
McGraw’s is a Tucson institution. If you haven’t been there, you should go just to say you’ve been there!
It’s under new ownership, and the owner happens to be someone who rides with us once in a while.
We’ll be sitting on the patio if the weather cooperates. The view is great, you get to see the stables below, and the Santa Rita mountains in the background.
Image shamefully lifted from www.motorcyclenews.com
The UK’s Motorcycle News has a short article about the new Ducati “899″ here:
They are calling it the 899, and I haven’t seen any confirmation that this is actually what it would be called. I’d be much happier with something like 990 or so .
So what can we see in these pictures that is different than the 1199? Quite a bit, actually.
The most obvious thing is the conventional swingarm. I have no problem with conventional swingarms. They obviously work very well on many bikes, including the 999. It should be possible for this one to be both lighter and stronger than the one on the 1199, but you probably won’t hear anything about that if it’s true.
Other not so obvious things are the smaller diameter forks without any fancy coating (maybe the same ones as the 848), possibly cast and not forged front brake calipers, smaller front brake discs, narrower rear wheel with a similar design as the current base 1199, smaller rear tire, possibly different cylinder heads (that’s a stretch), and probably a smaller diameter exhaust. I don’t see magnesium engine covers, this would be an obvious way to save money. I don’t see any ABS gear. And that’s all I can see from this photo.
The rear tire looks pinched a little bit, and that wouldn’t be possible with today’s tire sizes on a 6″ wheel. So it’s probably 5.5″ like the current 848. That might be a 190/55 tire, which isn’t an ideal fit on a 5.5″ wheel. Maybe it will use the 180/60 from the 848 Streetfighter?
The forks look very similar to the current 848, which isn’t a bad thing. Based on the flat caps, they might be Marzocchi or possibly “Big Piston” Showa.
Smaller front brake discs and cast calipers are not a problem either. Smaller discs could mean quicker steering, and cast calipers are fine for all but the fastest riders. The cast calipers on my 998 work just fine, and that bike is definitely heavier than this one.
The current 1199 motor has a shorter stroke than the 848, so they could retain the same crank as the 1199 and still maintain a pretty oversquare design. This would save some money, and possibly make for a flatter power curve than the 1199. It doesn’t make much sense to build another radically oversquare engine for this class of bike, it wouldn’t really need it. This bike doesn’t fit into any current racing classes at the world championship level like the 848.
It likely wouldn’t save much money by not including electronics such as traction control, engine braking control, and stuff like that. Hopefully the quickshifter is included. Electronics are sort of expected on sportbikes these days.
There isn’t much evidence that this bike would be lighter than the 1199, but it’s possible. That’s another thing that probably wouldn’t get much publicity, at least not in the context of the 1199.
I make it no secret that I’m a big fan of these “in between” sportbikes. 600s are too manic, and the 1000cc fours are pretty nutty. My 1199 is great, but it’s scary fast and a bit hard to deal with if you’re not careful. By contrast, my 998 is much easier to deal with and still feels pretty fast, even if it is lagging behind newer bikes. Same goes for my MV F4S 750. I’ve raced many GSX-R750s, and I’ve never ridden one I didn’t like. I’m also a big fan of the current 848 and past 999. MV is now back in this “in between” range with the F3 800. I’d be really surprised if this new Panigale isn’t as good or better than any of these on the track.
So this bike was introduced a few days ago. One of our members sent a mail to the Google group email list, and I replied with this:
Wow. Some of my speculations were correct:
Showa BPF forks
180/60 rear tire
Non magnesium engine covers
Less oversquare engine (but still a pretty short stroke)
But I got a few wrong too, such as no ABS. This one comes with ABS, no option to remove it.
Some surprising stuff:
Steel gas tank. You have to go back a ways to find one on a Ducati. My good tank bag would work again though. No more plastic tank fiascos I guess.
Steel tubular subframe. The one on the 1199 looks both cheap and correct for the job to me, I’m surprised that they would change it. Steel is still cheaper than vacuum formed Aluminum I guess.
Black and white LCD instead of color display. Probably done for money reasons, but it would be interesting to see if it’s an improvement. Probably isn’t based on what I see.
So in the end:
ABS + steel tank + steel subframe + no magnesium engine covers = 12 pounds heavier than my standard 1199.
Still pretty light though, all things considered. It’s lighter than most 600s I think.
Also funny that they call it a “Supermid”. I had said that I’m a fan of “in between” sportbikes. Ducati has seen fit to invent a new word for them.
The August 2013 DesmoSouthwest club meeting will be this Wednesday August 14th at 6:30PM. We’ll be meeting at O’Malley’s on fourth because this week happens to be the same week that the TVMR (Tucson Vintage Motorcycle Riders) will be there. I like vintage bikes and I know a few others do too so this works out.
O’Malley’s has a nice menu and of course, many different drinks. It’s a good time, and worth checking out if you haven’t been there.
There is a map to O’Malley’s on the Club Activites page.
See you Wednesday at 6:30PM!
They are located on Campbell a few blocks north of Grant at 2574 N. Campbell. The meeting time will be at 6:30PM as usual.
If you haven’t been to Frankie’s yet, it’s worth the trip. They have great Cheesesteaks, as well as sandwiches among other things.
This would be a good time to discuss our overnight trip planned for the weekend before the 4th of July as well.
There is a map to Frankie’s on our Club Activities page.
See you Wednesday night!
It seems my concerns about the hole in the powerband between about 5000 and 7500 RPM have been addressed by the Zard exhaust system company.
I’m not so concerned about the look, price, transformed tail section, and all that other stuff that comes with this exhaust that Zard have come up with. My concern is that they claim to have found 23 HP in the middle of the RPM range. This type of performance increase from an exhaust system is almost unheard of in modern motorcycles.
While I was in the UK and talking to the Moto Rapido team about their 1199 Panigale Superbike, one of the guys on the team said that Ducati is still experimenting with exhaust systems for the 1199 for race bikes. (Note: seems like they should be doing the same for those of us who don’t race as well judging by the dyno curve above…)
You can see that the exhaust on Carlos Checa’s 1199 is very different even than the Termignoni full system you can buy from Ducati:
A visible difference is that the rear cylinder’s exhaust is now coming straight down behind the footpeg. What you can’t see is there is a rather radical S bend in the horizontal cylinder’s exhaust right after the cylinder head before it exits on the side. A big U turn is probably a better way to describe it. I wish I took a picture of the Moto Rapido bike…
In both cases (Zard and Termignoni), extra length is being added to the exhausts. Short exhausts are great for top end power, but not much else. If you can add length to the exhaust without affecting top end power or other stuff (weight distribution in motorcycles has become a big deal), it can have big benefits as the dyno chart shows above.
The Zard system, including the modified tail section, cost about 3400 Euros. I think I’ll pass. But if I was racing the 1199 I’d have no choice!
I was lucky enough to ride a 999R, 1098R and my 1199 all on the same day recently. I didn’t spend a whole lot of time on the 999R and 1098R, but I have ridden a few 999Rs on the track, and I even raced one once. The 1098R is something I would like to spend a lot more time with, if only it were possible…
999R: The best steering Ducati superbike ever? The 749R might be the same or even a bit better. It’s gotta be in the running for best steering sportbike ever.
1098R: What a package! Only half a step behind the 999R as far as steering, but the engine and chassis are matched so perfectly. There’s nothing wrong. A dream motorcycle. I’m guessing the 1198S and SP are really close.
1199: The fastest, without question. You can’t argue with physics, technology, and progress. The most pleasing to ride on the street? Far from it. The above 2 make better street bikes, mostly because of the better fuel injection mapping and comfort.
To illustrate progress, here’s an interesting set of data:
999R: 399 pounds dry
1098R: 364 pounds dry
1199: 361 pounds dry
Note that the 1199 has no carbon fiber, and it has cast aluminum wheels where the other 2 have forged aluminum and lots of carbon fiber. That’s serious progress, folks.
The 2006 999S did the fastest lap of the Roadracing World 1000cc sportbike shootout at Spring Mountain (I think that’s where it was). That was against the GSX-R, ZX-10R, R1, etc. The 999R still holds the lap record at one of the fastest tracks motorcycles race on, Thruxton. These are seriously good motorcycles. Also notable is the dash is the most readable of the 3. It has a big analog tach right in the middle, and all of the other information you generally don’t need to know on a moment’s notice is clustered on the LCD panel, or in a few warning lights. I thought the 999R was the most comfortable as well.
The 1098R might be the fastest superbike ever get for corner exits. In World and Italian 1000cc Superstock last year, you could see the 1098R riders pull a huge gap on all other bikes, including the supposedly all conquering BMW S1000RR and even the 1199. The other bikes eventually caught up after a few hundred feet or so. This indicates not only a strong engine, but good mechanical grip as well. The steering, engine and suspension make such a good package. Possibly the best superbike for the street and track ever made. Unfortunately, it has the worst dash of the 3. LCD dashes just aren’t good for finding information quickly. But they are light and cheap… It’s not quite as comfortable as the 999R, but not far off.
The 1199 is such a hot and cold bike for me. It’s the fastest on the track of the 3 without question, although the 1098R would be close. It would take a few laps to go faster than the other 2, you have to build up trust a lot more since it doesn’t have that immediately perfect front end feel of the others. Corner entry takes a bit more faith. At full lean while feeding in throttle, it’s about the best feeling bike I’ve ever ridden though, and that’s where it counts. The brakes are better, but it’s not quite as stable as the other 2 on the brakes. The suspension isn’t as sophisticated, or the rear shock isn’t at least. You can feel this during corner entry all the way to full lean, but magically at full lean it becomes really good again. And then there’s the engine. Other than a hole in power between about 5 and 8k RPM, this must be the best engine ever put into a motorcycle. You get the really nice feel of a twin, but the manic top end of a 4 cylinder all in the same engine. The 1098/1198 can actually feel a bit too powerful in the lower RPM and it takes some concentration to keep it from getting away from you. The slightly softer power at lower RPM on the 1199 is actually a good thing for rideability, if only the FI map was better… The dash is just OK. It’s kind of cool to look at something that looks like an iPod on the dash, but ultimately a big analog tach is much easier to process. Hunting for information on a flat panel while riding quickly can be difficult, no matter how good that panel is. This is also the least comfortable Ducati superbike for me. The higher and closer handlebars don’t help much because there’s no gas tank to lean on. The heel plates push your heels outward just a bit and this feels awkward. The fuel injection mapping doesn’t work very well until you are going quickly, either. On the street it surges and pops a lot, and it takes a very light touch on the throttle to ride smoothly. The other 2 don’t have this problem, you aren’t even thinking about throttle control on those because they are so good.
So to sum it up:
The 999R and 1098R are better street bikes. But they have been thoroughly surpassed by the 1199 for racing. Which one should you have? Ideally, all of them. For me, I’m quite lucky to have both the 1199 and 998! If I didn’t have any of these, I’d go for the 1098R if I could afford it!